Yeah, but I think it's only meant to apply to services hosted outside the US. Not that that makes it OK, but most of your examples wouldn't apply.<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 12:33 PM, Alex Mandel <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:tech_dev@wildintellect.com">tech_dev@wildintellect.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">My understanding of the concerns is that this bill will net a lot of<br>
non-offenders without much court oversight (if any).<br>
<br>
Think of the the scenario where any web 2.0 website (anything that<br>
allows users to post) could potentially be a target if someone happens<br>
to post something that is copyrighted or at least thought to be under<br>
copyright. The fear is that major companies could ask paypal and google<br>
to unlist a wikipedia article, or that action could be taken to cut off<br>
google if it happens to link to a website that some-one uploaded<br>
potentially copyrighted materials too without permission. It's not clear<br>
to me that music inadvertently in the background of a you-tube video has<br>
been cleared as fair use (though it ought to be). The bill seems to<br>
shift the burden from being a request to take down material(DCMA) to a<br>
we will cut off your business (ISP, payments, blacklist dns) unless you<br>
prove you're not hosting our materials within 5 days of notification, oh<br>
and this doesn't necessarily have to go to court or be proven 100% until<br>
you sue to get your domain name back at which point the burden of proof<br>
is on the wiki, forum, social network site that was just trying to<br>
provide a service, to prove they weren't doing anything illegal.<br>
<br>
Specifically on the blacklist idea, people are concerned that entire<br>
regions will get blacklisted from US viewers, essentially meaning that<br>
we can no longer see 100% of the Internet. That by definition is<br>
censorship. Even if you're ok with Censorship of the internet is it fair<br>
to block 100% of a website if only 1% is offending material?<br>
<br>
While I don't know if things would go this extreme I understand the fear<br>
that censorship brings and the potential to make it really difficult to<br>
implement any website that allows users to post without having to bend<br>
over backwards to admin/moderate (a cost that no startup or non-profit<br>
can afford).<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
Alex<br>
<br>
PS: Search engines as usual will get targeted too, you think they do a<br>
poor job of listing the Internet(estimates are 10-15% of the web is<br>
indexed), wait until they have to censor what they list even more<br>
dramatically.<br>
<div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5"><br>
On 11/23/2011 01:29 PM, Mikies Runs Baal wrote:<br>
> Actually, certain types of porn are illegal, not only in this country<br>
> (USA), but other countries internationally.<br>
><br>
> Secondly, speaking to the vagueness alluded to, all laws tend to be<br>
> somewhat vague.<br>
><br>
> As with all law, there has to be probable cause for an action to be<br>
> initiated. This bill is no different, and further, spells out<br>
> consequences for filing false reports by the copyright holder et al.<br>
><br>
> After reading it from beginning to end, I, personally, think it is a<br>
> good law. If enacted, it might give us the right to circumvent<br>
> encryption protections on DVD and rip licensed copies to our personal<br>
> computer or other digital devices strictly for personal use much like<br>
> the current RIAA guideleines for ripping our music CD's to our personal<br>
> devices. This would, of course, have to be tested with a lawsuit<br>
> contesting the restrictions imposed by the DMCA on ripping DVD's with<br>
> copy protection. This might be defended as a moot point since almost all<br>
> DVD's I have bought within the last year now include a code for d/l'ing<br>
> a digital copy to a personal digital device including my laptop or other<br>
> device.<br>
><br>
> Currently, court decisions (case laws) under the DMCA make it illegal to<br>
> circumvent the encryption protections, but does NOT speak to the rights<br>
> of licensed copy owners to rip for personal use on their digital<br>
> devices. A close read of this law suggests it might be used to counter<br>
> the DMCA on DVD's for personal use.<br>
><br>
> As with all copyright issues, the licensed user MUST maintain a<br>
> permanent copy of the original CD/DVD for "Fair Use Laws" to apply. Give<br>
> away the original, lose the rights to the copy...<br>
><br>
> I have an extensive library of VHS and DVD originals that have<br>
> encryption protection in place. VHS's have a limited life-expectancy.<br>
> So, I would definitely love to be able to convert to a DVD format, and<br>
> since my laptop is my primary entertainment system when I am not home, I<br>
> would love to be able to convert my entire library to digital format and<br>
> store on my laptop or external HDD drive for portability.<br>
><br>
> I would encourage everyone to read the the bill in its entirety.<br>
><br>
> Here are the link/s again (all available links I could find, btw)<br>
><br>
> online: <a href="http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h112-3261" target="_blank">http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h112-3261</a><br>
><br>
> PDF:<br>
> <a href="http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=112_cong_bills&docid=f:h3261ih.txt.pdf" target="_blank">http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=112_cong_bills&docid=f:h3261ih.txt.pdf</a><br>
><br>
> PDF: <a href="http://judiciary.house.gov/hearings/pdf/112%20HR%203261.pdf" target="_blank">http://judiciary.house.gov/hearings/pdf/112%20HR%203261.pdf</a><br>
><br>
> online: <a href="http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c112:h3261" target="_blank">http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c112:h3261</a>:<br>
><br>
> Takes a couple hours to wade throught the text.<br>
><br>
> IMHO,<br>
><br>
> MJR<br>
><br>
> On 11/23/2011 9:10 AM, Eric Rasmussen wrote:<br>
>> Has anyone signed the <a href="http://whitehouse.gov" target="_blank">whitehouse.gov</a> petition?<br>
>> <a href="https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petitions#%21/petition/stop-e-parasite-act/SWBYXX55" target="_blank">https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petitions#!/petition/stop-e-parasite-act/SWBYXX55</a><br>
>><br>
>> I've never e-signed a whitehouse petition so I'm curious to know<br>
>> everyone's thoughts on whether or not its a meaningful step.<br>
>><br>
>> Thanks!<br>
>> Eric<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 9:01 AM, Joseph Arruda<<a href="mailto:joseph.arruda@gmail.com">joseph.arruda@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>>> I have read partway through <a href="http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h112-3261" target="_blank">http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h112-3261</a> , and it is indeed pretty vague in its language (a dangerous thing in the hands of Big Content)...I'll probably finish by the end of the weekend if anyone wants a rundown.<br>
>>><br>
>>> ja<br>
>>><br>
>>> On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 10:45 PM, Bill Ward<<a href="mailto:bill@wards.net">bill@wards.net</a>> wrote:<br>
>>>> Um, porn may be unsavory but it's not an illegal activity.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 8:41 PM, Mikies Runs Baal<<a href="mailto:mikiesrunsbaal.sec@sbcglobal.net">mikiesrunsbaal.sec@sbcglobal.net</a>> wrote:<br>
>>>>> Heya Bill,<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> Besides me, has anyone bothered to d/l and read the actual bill to find<br>
>>>>> out IF and WHAT the hubris is actually about.<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> Seems to me that the major screamers are the ones hosting porn sites and<br>
>>>>> other illegal activities.<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> IMHO,<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> MJR<br>
>>>>> _______________________________________________<br>
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>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> --<br>
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>>>><br>
>>>><br>
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