My mind has decided that today would be a good day to die. From the shell, how would you find the gid of a given group without resorting to grep? E.g., something like 'id' that works for groups? --=20 Don Werve <donw@examen.com> (Unix System Administrator) Yorn desh born, der ritt de gitt der gue, Orn desh, dee born desh, de umn bork! bork! bork!